Transcript of Mario Silva's recording
MARIO SILVA: ...And they are likely to cause another devaluation; they are thinking it over. They are thinking it over. I mean: those who have been dealing with the issue of the dollar... Do you remember that in a prior briefing I said that Diosdado's [Cabello, the Venezuelan Congress Speaker] funding sources should be chopped off? Do you remember? I even told you that one of his funding sources, two of his most important funding sources were Cadivi [Foreign Exchange Administration Board] and Seniat [Integrated National Customs and Tax Administration Service].
That is, [Cadivi President Manuel] Barroso, and his brother José David Cabello. And the other source was his control of Sebin [Bolivarian Intelligence Service], DIM [Military Intelligence Directorate], with [Minister of the Interior and Justice, General Miguel] Rodríguez Torres and [DIM Director Wilfredo] Figueroa Chacín. That is, besides that, we found half control of two extremely dangerous institutions: the Cicpc [Scientific, Criminal and Forensic Investigation Agency], which is in Cabello's hands as well, and the National Police, which was delivered to a woman linked with non-governmental organizations, NGOs...
(A telephone call is made to the interlocutor; shortly after, the talk continues).
...I tell you, the National Police is linked, that is, she, who heads the University of the National Police is linked with NGOs, and rightwing human rights advocates.
INTERLOCUTOR (LIEUTENANT COLONEL OF CUBAN G2 ARAMIS PALACIOS): Is she?
MARIO SILVA: Eh... [President of the Security National Experimental University Soraya El] Achkar, the one with an Arabic surname. I cannot remember her first name right now. Ok, that is profoundly tied to the rightwing, and the message that has been always delivered inside the National Police is of an institutional nature. As a matter of fact, when they opened the university, this lady in her speech talked about the institutional character; [late President Hugo] Chávez, who was present at that opening, fired back and said that it was not right, that the Bolivarian National Police should be grounded on revolutionary and Bolivarian principles. This was never done. At that time, Tareck El Aissami was the Minister [of the Interior and Justice]; nothing was ever done, and nothing has been done so far. Nobody has tackled the internal problem we have inside the National Police. Ok? We are witnessing that all bodies, namely: intelligence and police, are in the hands of Diosdado.
Still worse, the Cicpc nowadays and the National Police have two elements in line with the far right, not even with Diosdado. Many of their elements follow the orders of the opposition, because they are their heirs, they never swapped sides. As regards the National Police, the National Police was made of the Metropolitan Police.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): It is inside it...
MARIO SILVA: Yes, and that Metropolitan Police continues liking the rightwing. Ok? Therefore, we are taking a glance at the little drawing we have: intelligence bodies, police bodies, or security urban control, and then, we have [the issue of] funding.
Now, speaking about devaluation, the big issue, the very [Planning Minister Jorge] Giordani said, was the flight of capital through firms, some of them front firms, some others in line with Diosdado Cabello, through Cadivi. The allocation of foreign currency that went out and intended, put it in inverted commas, to make deals of private businesses and it turned out that they would spent a portion and sell the remaining portion. There was flight of capital and this caused the exaggerate difference between the price at [VEB] 4.30 and the other price. Can you see it?
Who were involved in such money laundering? Barroso and Seniat.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Cadivi and...
MARIO SILVA: Exactly, Cadivi and Seniat. Next a number of portfolio companies came, many of them from Puerto Cabello, run by Disip former Director, [Carlos] Aguilera. Some of them were managed by him; building companies; all of them portfolio companies that had been granted US dollars and there was a bleeding, as the very Giordani said in a meeting with Commander Chávez. And [Trujillo state governor and ex-Minister of Defense Henry] Rangel Silva was present. Commander Chávez was allocating some foreign currency, and Rangel, I mean, and Giordani told Rangel: "I am getting out of here because these bastards are bleeding the country." For this reason, we recommended in the report about the need to get rid of both Barroso and José David Cabello; it was necessary. But devaluation came. They should have dumped Barroso first, and then thinking through what was going on inside Cadivi; making corrections; recovering all that could be recovered and reassessing the possibility of devaluation. No, devaluation was effected. Afterwards, when the Commander was already dead, they resolved to take Barroso out; and the decision was made, which has not been completed, to take José David Cabello out. For me, it was an advanced step that made Diosdado being more careful. That is, trying to get José David out of the way during the election campaign. That shit should not have been done. The timing should arrive when Maduro would take over the presidency, and thereafter, well, taking any requisite steps. With regard to Barroso, action had been taken, yet the measure related to devaluation should have not been taken. They attributed to the Commander the measure related to devaluation. Damn it! I think it was not that. Can you see? Ok.
We already have the little drawing, haven't we? Concerning funding. Next, Maduro started to blast [Defense Minister Diego Alfredo] Molero [Bellavia]. Firstly, he recruited [General Wilmer] Barrientos, of Ceofan [Army Strategic Operational Command]; he recruited him, Barrientos... Initially, Barrientos was a man whom Diosdado heavily battered. He took him and sent him southwards. That is, Rangel Silva rescued Barrientos; he rescued him and brought him back. Rangel Silva came in the Ministry of Defense when he was close to hand over; he put Barrientos at the Ceofan, thinking that the disagreement between Barrientos and Diosdado was to prosper and we have a fiduciary man there. As a matter of fact, that was analyzed at the beginning. But then, a number of elements would arise; clashes with Molero, as the incoming Defense Minister. But still another thing happened there: Mr. Barrientos, together with [brothers] Clíver Alcalá Cordones [the Commander General of the Comprehensive Defense of Guayana Region] and [Major General] Carlos Alcalá Cordones, met with [Constitutionalist lawyer] Hermann Escarrá. And the subject matter there was [to ascertain] only whether, under the Constitution, the Ceofan had been ordered only and exclusively by the President of the Republic, which is true, and whether the Ceofan had to follow the orders or should be subject to the orders of the Defense Minister. We have the first breaking point here.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): We are speaking about detachment from the CEO [Strategic Operational Command]...
MARIO SILVA: From the Ministry of Defense. Now, at the Ministry of Defense, we have an asset. Firstly, Molero continues being the minister and there is loyalty, I am not to talk about Carlos Alcalá Cordones. Carlos Alcalá Cordones presumably was at odds with Clíver, his own brother. However, such disagreements vanished when the Commander died. They would ponder on the possibility, and that it what Diosdado has been selling them, the possibility of everything falling down to pieces. In fact, three days before the Commander died, [ex-Minister of Tourism] Pedro Morejón paid a visit to me. Pedro Morejón offered me...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): (Inaudible)
MARIO SILVA: Aha, we already saw it; you have it in a report. Can you see? The idea was that [Venezuela's President Nicolás] Maduro, we even got the information as to the idea was that Maduro would say: "I am not able to do this." And creating the breeding ground for the Congress Speaker, Diosdado Cabello, to be the candidate and take office. However, when the blow was stricken against Barroso, and the blow was stricken against José David Cabello, Diosdado said: "No, I just want to take control; I do not want to be the president." And alliances would emerge, corrupting the class of year 1985...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Which would be the one that steps in...
MARIO SILVA: The one that steps in right now and will be, nothing more, nothing less, than seven years in office inside the armed forces.
Now, is everything lost inside the armed forces? No. We have that High Command, reasonably, almost into retirement; we have a number of generals of ours. I think that many of them are even broken up; and we have the middle cadres that despise, hate, Diosdado's attitude. You see? And, sure enough, the classes, sergeants, the whole battalion, which are not to hesitate if the event of any coup attempt. Right? Ok, now. What am I looking at right now? Let's go this way; you are already taking a glance at the whole...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): The context of the military command...
MARIO SILVA: Aha, exactly. Nicolás, in the civil power has not made it; damn it, firstly, he has refused to have a talk with Molero. Molero is an operator; that is, Molero is not a politician; he is an operator; he is a command; he is a man of war. For some reason, Commander Chávez put him there instead of anyone else. He could have put the one of militias, but the one of militias has yielded to Diosdado. He could have put Clíver or Carlos Alcalá. He did not do it; he put Molero, because Molero, that guy, is an operator. Molero is a man who even attended one of the meetings that had to do with the High Command, and Diosdado was there, he said that treason is paid with blood, that is, that guy is an operator; he is an operator, because that guy is loyal to Chávez.
When we, including me, in a message told him: "damn it, there is much saber rattle. Why don't you speak with Nicolás?" "Damn it, Mario, the thing is that they refuse to meet with me." But what gave me a real fright was that four-five days ago Carolina Cestari showed up, an evil woman. She was the wife of Néstor Francia when we [the two of us] had "La Hojilla." After "La Hojilla" was divided, she left as the assistant of [Chief of Staff and Maduro's partner] Cilia Flores, during her incumbency at the [National] Assembly. The woman is currently Cilia Flores' assistant. What did Ms. Carolina Cestari do? She called Ricardo Durán and told him: "Look, ask Mario if his friend Diego Molero is to stage a coup, because this is what he is saying, and Cilia wonders."
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): It is being created...
MARIO SILVA: Aha, exactly. That seemed to me very bad, because we were speaking no more of conspiracy as usual; we are speaking of gossip.
(A telephone call is made to the interlocutor; his words are inaudible).
MARIO SILVA: Shall I stop...?
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): (Saying to the person who called him: "He should be taken up to the Military Club...Take him, take him, take him... Do me that favor, because I am sort of complicated here. And you try to find Galindo, Galindo, yes... I call you back in few minutes; anyway, he is there, in room 316... Ok, thanks. Yes, call me then, as soon as you finish off.")
MARIO SILVA: Where was I? Aha, gossip...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Gossip, but hang on, something important; excuse me for having interrupted you. The problem is the following: we will not call it gossip; that has an intention...
MARIO SILVA: Sure, I was called... I know Carolina. Aha, she made it known to Ricardo Durán. An alarmed Ricardo Durán approached me; he told me that for the weekend, that one, Diego Molero, was scheming a coup. And I told him: "No." Just in case, I called Diego...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): It worked for you. Such a try was worth for you.
MARIO SILVA: I called Molero and told him: "What the hell is going on here, Diego? They are saying that you are plotting." Molero, going mad, told me: "Mario, not at all. I have been unable to speak either with Cilia or with anybody, and we have a serious internal situation of gossip, events, rumors that are pestering us." I called Ricardo and told him: "Please, ask Carolina Cestari why she is querying into that matter." And I told him right away: "Get her on the phone." And I told Carolina Cestari: "Carolina, what the hell told you that? Don't say ‘I was told that.' Look, Carolina, let's be clear: that thing is at levels, at high level, and what you are saying is very dangerous." I told her that, I was mad. I told her: "What you are saying is very dangerous; it could have other connotations." I told her: "Yes, as Cilia is receiving no calls –I told her- and you are Cilia's assistant, ask Cilia to meet with Molero then. As far as I understand, they do not meet even with the Minister of Defense. Damn it, that should be done; there is the need to meet with him." "Yes, I will tell her," she answered.
About 10-15 minutes, she told me: "Yes, they spoke with Molero already." And I said: "No, I called Molero. (I asked him) Did they call you?" "No, Mario," he said. That is, all that rumor going around and preventing Nicolás from meeting with Molero. It is happening just like what happened with the Commander. Sometimes he would be locked up and no access to him would be allowed. And Diosdado Cabello is very good for that matter. He is very good at closing the possibility of speaking with Molero. That is why, sometimes, when I had to tell the Commander anything, I did it through third parties; because delivering anything directly to the Commander or by any means close to him, was impossible. And I had to do it through third parties. I had to deliver the information, in this case, to Alexis, Pavel, to those with whom I had contact by then. And I would tell any of them: "Damn it, this is happening. Deliver this information."
(The phone rings and Mario Silva says: "Damn it, stop it mate, otherwise...")
MARIO SILVA: Aha, for this reason I always tried to reach the Commander. What's up? I learned of a French group brought by Temir Porras [Executive Secretary of the National Fund for Endogenous Development, Fonden, and CEO of the Venezuelan National Economic and Social Development Bank, Bandes], the one who is advising Nicolás, which I deem absurd, but anyway, I have not confirmed that. Again, I learned of an onslaught by Diosdado and freeze of José David Cabello's departure from Seniat. No more words have been spelled about it, and that is serious. I even learned of a clash between José David Cabello, in the middle of the [presidential] campaign with Nicolás Maduro in the states of Táchira and Mérida. Shortly after, we learned that the very Nicolás picked a quarrel with Diosdado and told him that he must go ahead. But, most importantly, the 1 x 10 [formula] did not work, Palacios. The call of the party, the party did not exist at any time; firstly, because apparently those gentlemen, the French advisers, recommended Nicolás, and you can see it on posters, to detach the party from himself, which I deem terrible.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Serious.
MARIO SILVA: Serious indeed. You see? Secondly, he was put all those guys; artists all of them; he turned the campaign into a show like "Sábado Sensacional" of [private TV channel] Venevisión; and people got mad, and such actions were refused. What's up? Two days before the campaign, I said that the last two speeches of Nicolás in [the states of] Falcón, Lara, Zulia, and in the closing of the campaign, when he was in Falcón, I told him in a SMS. I will show you, damn it, because I have evidence of things that have been occurring and I am very scared. I told him clearly, and watch out, I do not fear for my life... We were given another blow.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): When?
MARIO SILVA: Last week and we protected ourselves though. I was told: "Don't go to the channel." [I replied] "Not at all, I will go down to the channel." And I headed for the channel on Monday. I am not afraid of that, Palacios. And I would be at the channel, and I was on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, inside the channel. And we would go armed, as it had to be. Now, hang on, because I am most interested in this thing before the campaign. Hang on, he was in -how was it?- he was in Falcón (state) when I sent him this SMS.
...You will see. I have it here. Look. On the 9th day, I told him: "Damn it, Nicolás; that is infuriating, I do not know who the director is in this broadcast; precisely after 12:00 there was a focus on people leaving the rally. Again, on the 10th day, I go ahead: "Dude, Schemel [Oscar Schemel, the director of pollster Hinterlaces] delivered to me the latest results, which show a narrower gap. I think he plans to make some recommendations. I do not know which recommendations, but for me, I have two recommendations for that matter, and I make them because I am worried if such shrinkage proves to be true. Firstly, enhance the spirit that prevailed at Los Próceres [promenade] during our Commander's laying in state. Secondly, call the humble people to get involved, the People's Power. That's Ok with the artists, yet it has caused...
(The interlocutor answers another phone call)
MARIO SILVA: I told him (he reads out). "I have two personal recommendations and I make them because I am worried if such shrinkage turns out to be true. Firstly, enhance the spirit that prevailed at Los Próceres during our Commander's laying in state. Secondly, call the humble people to get involved, the People's Power. That's Ok with the artists, yet it has caused certain distrust... in sectors that regard them as opportunistic. Be careful, buddy; it is my perception from the bottom of my heart. Lastly, look after the machinery; urge the people to get organized, collectives, all of them to participate in this battle. I leave my life here, dude. Remember that the Commander is our future. Best wishes."
I told him, he told me... he answered to me: "I am working on it; gathering it all; making an appeal..." And he gave his speech a volte-face after Falcón.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): It shows that...
MARIO SILVA: That he understood me. Aha, and I told him: "I know that you understand me, buddy. I wish this will not become..." He told me: "I am making a dramatic appeal for victory..." Bring that to me, Juan...
Aha, I told him (he reads out): "I know that you understand me, buddy. I wish this will not become an elite act or a show similar to ‘Sábado Sensacional.' Invoke my Commander as if we had him lying in state and enhance the spirit prevailing at Los Próceres. Call all parties to be organized for the final battle. It is a commitment of all of us to my Commander. People's Power. It was awesome in Falcón." I told him: "I am leaving tonight to the show, targeting; as for you, keep on doing what you are doing."
He said: "You know about the expression of people's force in Lara, don't you? Ok."
Aha, and I told him... Pay attention... That day, which was the day of the closing of the campaign, the 11th day, they felt like having a program with Venevisión. And I told him: "Let me disclose you something: Venevisión is involved again in a plot."
Indeed, Venevisión mounted all that stuff, cameras and everything, for [opposition presidential candidate Henrique] Capriles [Radonski]. And it is involved in the plot. However, they gave Nicolás a last interview. After the closing of the campaign, they had an interview at the Mountain Quarter. And I told him: "Listen, my friend, do you think that you can be on air before 12:00? Or at least 40 minutes before? Images are astounding -those at Bolívar Avenue- and it would be advisable to exhibit them."
He replied to me: "Absolutely." He let me in half an hour before 12:00. Half an hour before 12:00. He could have left before 12:00, yet half an hour before 12:00, he let me in.
On the 12th day, he told me: "Call me as soon as you can, without saying anything alive."
I phoned him. Do you reckon what he told me?
Watch out, that is what he told me, and he sent a photo to me. That his face had appeared on the picture of the Commander which is at the Mountain Quarter, and that they recorded a video and everything...
His face had appeared in the Commander's hands. Here it goes... the picture.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Yes...
MARIO SILVA: Here it goes... Hold a moment... (he shows the photo)
I never saw the video... Here it goes. His face is in the Commander's hands, and I understand they have a video and all that.
Now, as an atheist in my own right, I can tell you that perhaps that was a last-minute topic they wanted to include, as it were, that the Commander showed up.
But I did not hesitate; I called [Caracas mayor and leader of the pro-government campaign team] Jorge Rodríguez and told him: "Jorge, this is what is going on at the Mountain Quarter." And Jorge told me: "Be careful what you say, Mario; otherwise, that would be (snapping hands); in two days they could kick down our full campaign by saying that Nicolás is crazy."
I caught it fast and told him: "Nicolás has good eyesight." Jorge called me to give me some directions with regard to Capriles' lies and I mentioned the video. And he advised me to be careful with the potential interpretation by the media. However, even though I shared Jorge's concern about the evil performance of those media outlets, such event made a deep impression on me.
I am not saying that I do not believe in that shit. Don't I? But he told me that this occurred before the people of the Military Guard, before Tareck El Aissami. And I don't know...
However, I think -here in my evil, Machiavellian head- I think that this stuff was fostered by Diosdado Cabello, knowing that if that stuff went on air...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): ...It would be a boom.
MARIO SILVA: It would be a boom. It was a blow. They would say that Nicolás was crazy, just like that guy, Escalante, who was here [presidential candidate Diógenes Escalante for the election of 1946]... and Nicolás would lose.
That was over. He died. Nothing else would be said about that stuff.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): And that photo really was...
MARIO SILVA: I don't know. I never received the video; just that photo from Tareck El Aissami.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): That photo could be...
MARIO SILVA: Yes, downloaded. Yes, I can e-mail it, no problem. That was... It is the only thing I have as evidence... because the video was supposed to be sent to me, but at the end of the day, it was not sent. They stopped it, whatever, you think about it.
INTERLOCUTOR: Tareck sent you the photo...
MARIO SILVA: Tareck El Aissami e-mailed it to me. "Impressive," he said. "Damn it! Chávez is watching us," and stuff like that.
I, damn it...
As a Marxist in my own right, I shut up my mouth, did not say a word.
Ok, what I am seeing right now? I am telling you about all the events, everything that has occurred.
I am afraid, Palacios, that Nicolás, firstly, is being manipulated by Cilia.
This is a continent of caudillos, mate, and women should be behind. For many reasons, mythical, spiritual things, Venezuelan women love powerful men. And I mix up these things, which are psycho-social, which have to do with a person's leadership.
Chávez, while he had his wife, or whoever he might have, I don't mind about him having them or not; he was a mysterious man for women because he divorced twice; and he used to be an attractive man for women. And that thing was most enticing. I told Hanoi [Mario Silva's daughter] once: "Damn it! I wonder if anybody could tell Nicolás that he would rather stop showing Cilia; that he should act as a leader, and not like: "here my woman is, [give me] a little kiss," and stuff like that. This is not a US campaign; this is a Latin American campaign.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Could we say that such behavior runs counter to the tradition of...?
MARIO SILVA: Sure! Of course!
My Commander Fidel once said to me –and he certainly must remember this, because it was during one of the meetings I had with him... He told me that he did not understand why Commander Chávez had not finished off the bourgeois elections (?)
(...) Because the people used to make mistakes, and I absolutely agree with him. I absolutely and entirely agree.
Here, with the elections the way they are, we could be struck down. They could knock the Revolution down.
In fact, we were thinking –and yesterday we held an intelligence briefing with two Cuban comrades, two Cuban officers, at [south Caracas military base] Tiuna Fort.
And one of the issues I raised was...
Actually, they told me about the US Army and the US State Department war and its modalities... I think it was updated up to 2012, November 11, 2012. And I asked a question to the Cuban comrades yesterday: What if...? Let us picture another scenario, because you did not talk to me about this... What if they have the capacity to change the (election) results in [the National Electoral Council] CNE?
This is an issue, Palacios. We hung the sword of Damocles over our heads when we said that the CNE is invulnerable.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): This is a very complex issue, based on what you are explaining to me in the first part of this conversation.
MARIO SILVA: Do you understand? How can I come up now and say that the CNE was hacked, if I used to defend the CNE?
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): (Unintelligible) It is quite a responsibility.
MARIO SILVA: Then, obviously, Nicolás came up and said: "Yes, we won by 260,000 votes." And what if that bullshit is not true? What if the relevant examinations are not conducted, I mean a forensic examination of the (election data) transmissions... That's it...
Do you understand now?
Now, what do I have here?
Firstly, we have the scenario of the (presidential) election. The opposition did not win, but it was very close...That is not true, Palacios! All the polls show that we have some 60% of grassroots support, to say the least. And you wonder... Where the hell is that grassroots support?
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): There are not six million oligarchs here.
MARIO SILVA: Ok. Now, listen to this, Palacios. This is very important to me: Why did not they make the opposition win? This has an answer.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): You have asked me that twice.
MARIO SILVA: Because the opposition is more dangerous when it is two [percentage] points below than when it is two [percentage] points above. Exactly! What is the origin of this conflict? The one and a half [percentage] point [lead of Maduro] and the doubts!
How the 60-70% (grassroots support) we have in the [low-income] barrios would have reacted if they (the opposition) won the election by one and a half [percentage] point? The war would have started. But the opposition was not stupid. They took a step back. They said: ‘No! Let's take this to one and a half (percentage) point and conspiracy will continue. Why? We can overthrow him now, and if not, in two and a half years, for bad administration, corruption, inefficiency, any bullshit. We can hold a recall vote and screw him (Maduro)'.
(Slapping on the table)
Do you understand now?
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Crystal clear.
MARIO SILVA: Now, what bothers me? Right now, we could move to... First of all, this is very important to me... First, we have to talk to [CNE] president Tibisay Lucena and the directors [of CNE] –except for Vicente Díaz- and tell them: Look, you know what? Check that [election results] over from top to bottom and in private. Nobody can breach this anymore! This has been happening for a long time now, and I told this to my Commander Fidel twice or three times. I told him: "They are going to breach the CNE election. Let us check this up."
That in the first place. Secondly, Maduro is obliged, obliged, to follow the path of the Commander. He is obliged to put Diosdado Cabello against the wall. He is obliged to.
I said so these days... Hopefully...
Damn it! I have this crazy idea... Knowing my Commander, may he rest in peace, the way I know him... I hope it occurred to him to tape a video saying the reasons why he chose Maduro, who were plotting and everything else. I am sure that my Commander knew he was going to die. I am sure about that. But my Commander, if he wanted to leave everything in order, had to have taped that video. He had to.
Now, who the hell gave those instructions? I don't know. But for me, and this is my wild theory, the Commander, before undergoing surgery, before leaving for Cuba, before the ensuing whole process, his fall, and everything, must have taped a video.
That is the only way, man. I mean, imagine that we have to get rid of Diosdado right now...
Diosdado could say that Nicolás is the traitor, and total confusion would be created in the country.
That's the only way to stop Diosdado: having a reliable proof that the Commander knew. Otherwise, compadre, two scenarios are possible, in my opinion, based on the events of the last 24 hours. I believe Nicolas is trapped, even if he is keen to do what he wants to do. I guess, because I have sensed this... I have sensed this in my talks with him... I guess he is keen to... but the trap has been set by all the power groups.
For example, they want to remove [Defense Minister Diego] Molero. I am going to refer here to the military issue, which for me is very important, which for me is the mainstay of this thing. They want Molero out. Why do they want him out, Palacios? So that they can take over the Armed Forces and force Maduro to act the way they want or stage a coup d'état.
Diosdado Cabello would look good saying that he warned him [Maduro], just like he did it on Twitter on the Election Day. After the election results were disclosed, Diosdado Cabello posted a message on Twitter saying that he had made a warning about the outcome and that an internal revision was needed.
It came first in the Armed Forces.
A solution... We talked here about a solution with my General Uzcátegui Duque. What solution do we have?
First: This class of 1985 has to be stopped. The only way to do that is by appointing –which can actually be done- a retired military officer as defense minister.
Second: Who? [retired Vice-Admiral Armando] Laguna Laguna, maybe. He is a man linked to and respected by the Armed Forces. He comes from the Navy, but he is a respected and firm man in the Armed Forces. And he is a man linked to intelligence. His subordinate was Molero. He was the man who fought back at the headquarters of the Navy on April 11 (2002), and our Commander was very fond of him.
Another name? General Alí Uzcátegui Duque. He is linked to the DIM. He is the current ambassador to Vienna. He is on our side. And he has been warning me against all of this. He asked me not to bring up his name as likely minister, but I insist. I know both of them are tough men and they are respected by the Armed Forces.
They are the ones who can stop someone like Barrientos. They are the men who can stop the class of 1985. They can make the moves to do that.
But right now, Palacios, Molero cannot be removed from the defense ministry. He cannot. If Molero is removed from the defense ministry, we are dead. Diosdado will take it over.
Another minister who cannot be removed is [Petroleum and Mining Minister] Rafael Ramírez. I insist.
I said that to my Commander Fidel once. He [Ramírez] cannot be removed from his position. He cannot.
If Diosdado takes control of Pdvsa, we are more than dead.
Another man who cannot be removed: [Planning Minister Jorge] Giordani.
Another person who cannot be removed: Yadira Córdoba. They are the stumbling blocks of Diosdado within the government.
At this moment, they are the ones who can –based on the ideological and cadres training apparatuses of Rafael Ramírez, for instance, with the case of Toby Valderrama, or Giordani, with his own cadres- surround Maduro to create a government consistent with the instructions of the Commander.
Third: No other devaluation should take place. We have to get to the point of this mess.
We have to stop the drain of dollars that are taken away by our own people, Palacios.
(Snapping on the table)
Rangel Silva discovered a contractor who got dollars; he sold a half and used the other half for the purposes he had said they would be used. And when Rangel Silva stopped the flow of dollars, José Vicente Rangel called Rangel Silva to tell him to step away.
José Vicente Rangel held a meeting, Palacios, a meeting, with Diosdado, and he anticipated, before the death of the President, that Jorge Arreaza would be the Vice-President of the Republic. And that talk would have to be held with him [Arreaza] to facilitate some construction agreements.
We are in a sea of shit, dude, and we have not realized it yet, Palacios, and things are handled under the table.
And the target to be killed right now is me, because I know many things, Palacios. They know that I am entrenched myself. Orders have been given again to kill my children.
We discovered two and bang, bang... we hit them (slapping the table)
One of the subjects we found carried a NATO rifle. These are things we have done swiftly. Then, are we going to continue with this tale?
There are instructions to start sabotage at any time. DIM cannot continue in the hands of [Brigadier General Wilfredo] Figueroa Chacín, because Figueroa Chacín is a chessman of [Hugo] Carvajal.
Let me tell you something -The only way out is to take Sebin over; to take over... But I mean it, my friend. This is real. Does that imply a risk of destabilization? Yes, it does!
But as long as Maduro is clear... both in economy and...
They will come now with the issue of shortage. They will come with several issues at the same time, Palacios. They will pave the way for the government to be unruly... for the entire administration to become unruly in the next couple of years, to try the recall referendum.
That's it. Diosdado approached me again; he phoned me in the middle of the program. I did what I had to do. Oh, no. I can mention that Diosdado twitted something. I engage in real politics with him, yet I know that this SOB is involved in all this mess.
Pedro Morejón approached me again. "That I will start again the radio show." Come on. Do it.
That is, I have had to give way; I have had to give way in order to know what is going on in there.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Waiting for (?)
MARIO SILVA: Some ministers here, my friend, have no idea of what they should do. And maybe, they are stealing, Palacios, because they think that this is falling down to pieces. And we have quite an asset. Should Maduro do what he has to do, people would jump in support of him, Palacios.
In past pot banging, Palacios, and that is the trots, at 23 de Enero [a low-income barrio located in western Caracas], pot banging could be felt. That is very dangerous. Not only that, but behind the party, as ordered by Diosdado, before the election, it would be said: Maduro is not Chávez, Maduro is not Chávez. The motto used by the opposition, saying that Maduro is not Chávez was delivered by Diosdado. (Slapping on the table).
Now, Diosdado became more Chavista and more radical than Chávez. You see? You have seen him: "Noo, shall they come with anything like an 11 [in reference to the events of April 11, 2002], they will face a 13th. We will crush them." Stuff like that. He pretends to be more Chavista and tougher; more radical than the very Maduro.
We've got eight people dead; yes, those eight people dead. Today, they injured somebody else; two more people. I cannot remember right now, two more injured people. Well, should those eight deaths remain unpunished we will have the same actors we had in 2002. And let's be clear: Commander Chávez is no more here and that, for us, is a problem. Maduro should target his... That is, we, thus far, have the people over there, supporting us. However, as from tomorrow, Maduro should play his role.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Fully, fully.
MARIO SILVA: Fully. Now, what we have here? Internal groups. For instance, I complained about a guy who is working at Pdvsa La Estancia, who was among those who stormed, along with Capriles, into the Embassy of Cuba, on April 12 .
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): He is working at...
MARIO SILVA: He is a contractor and works for Pdvsa La Estancia.
Who got him there?
The point is not that Rafael Ramírez got him, in case you don't know. It is not Rafael. The point is that I made such complaint five-six years ago. And José Vicente Rangel called me and told me that I could not talk about that bullshit because he [the alleged contractor] was a friend of his wife, Ana Ávalos.
Videos are there; I can show them to you, if you like; videos are there.
We have the institutions filled with shit. Venezolana de Televisión has been handed over to the Group of Vampires. What is the Group of Vampires? Jorge Arreaza's brother, Gustavo Arreaza; Rubén Hernández; Tania Díaz. All of them are thieves who were dumped by the Commander because they were thieves. Because the minister, when she was a minister, Tania Díaz, she was the Minister of Communication and Information, did not last three months [in office], and they grabbed all the money they could from Venezolana de Televisión. They came in again. They are there.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Who did bring them?
MARIO SILVA: Cilia brought them. Such Group of Vampires is linked with Cilia.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): When will we assemble the (unintelligible)
MARIO SILVA: (Sigh) Oh, my friend, I will need to bring Ramón to mount it and all that...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Who will broadcast that for us?
MARIO SILVA: For instance, and this is most important, before I forget it. [Vargas state governor Jorge Luis] García Carneiro asked to be interviewed on the closing day of the campaign. I invited him. As it was April 11 and he had a pending matter... However, he delivered a speech sort of weird, where he hurled things he never uttered before. That [army inspector general, Major General Julio] García Montoya was a traitor, that he was watching him and all that stuff.
In making the analysis of his speech, we found that probably García Carneiro was linked with Bolívar state governor, [Francisco] Rangel Gómez; that is, the old, corrupt generals. Chávez put them there because Chávez could tame them, those corrupts... [Government Deputy William] Fariñas, [Táchira state governor José Gregorio] Vielma Mora, and one wonders what the hell they are pursuing right now; whether leadership at the armed forces and trying to influence the armed forces to blast Maduro.
And we realized that after the remarks, where this guy started to disclose things we did not know. (Snapping on the table)
What's going on?
Again, Nicolás may have all the enthusiasm in the world.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): All his capacity of action.
MARIO SILVA: Ok. Yet enthusiasm comes together with an honest advisory team with every intention to sail this sea infested with sharks and manage to go ahead. This is what I think.
Now. What about internal divisions? Plenty of them.
Are there any groups over there... going to and fro, looking at the way of grabbing more money? Yes, but all that shit is just betting against this, against the 14 years that took to the Commander to build this thing.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Perhaps it is not that...
Yesterday, I was sitting alone after the show, because I cannot shake off the rage I have inside. And I feel fear, Palacios. Sort of, damn it, I would say, visceral, emotional and terrible fear. I have been very depressed all these days. But I have a terrible fear for all this shit to go to the hell because of us. And what we saw from the opposition on Monday, Tuesday; that thing will be nothing compared to what will happen in this country should the opposition take office again.
My family in Turmero [a township located in central Carabobo state] has been subject to pot banging, and I have shut up my mouth, Palacios. I have been close to get in a car, head there, and shoot at anyone approaching my house.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Nooo...
MARIO SILVA: But, watch out. What is happening today, Palacios; what is happening today is being permitted by Diosdado Cabello, because he does not give a damn; money, power is what he really cares. And all those who are behind are thinking through, either locking Maduro up, or flirting with him or screwing him.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): (Unintelligible)
MARIO SILVA: Ah, incidentally, what about including in this recording what happened on the Election Day, at 4:00 in the afternoon? We are talking about 45,000 cyber-attacks. They knocked the Internet platform down. Jorge Arreaza appeared and said that it had nothing to do with the transmission [of votes]. However, a CNE technician informed Ricardo Durán [the Press Chief Officer at the National Assembly] that the security protocol had been down for one hour. You see? And that is very serious.
Let me add two things, all things considered.
All of us are almost certain... Because we brought in, on the Election Day, we brought the Mega in. I brought him to examine him. I intended to put that swine behind bars, because I'm almost certain that he was among the people involved in the attacks on the CNE. One... at least he is one of them... or took part in it... He is linked with Diosdado. And he would say: "Damn it, Diosdado is very worried." I told this one: "Play along with him, with everything he may say." I did not even receive him. This one met with him.
But I'm almost positive, almost positive, Palacios, that all that accusation linking María Gabriela [the daughter of late President Hugo Chávez] with [journalist Nelson] Bocaranda was framed by [Minister of the Interior and Justice Miguel] Rodríguez Torres and by that hacker, as ordered by Diosdado Cabello.
Because there is something, some rumors, some noise reaching us about Jorge Arreaza. We have been told that Jorge Arreaza presumably had the direct link with Bocaranda, because, do you know how is he dubbed? The sneak, the informer. Everything that was happening with the Commander was likely to come from him.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): In default of a source, he might be the informer... Would you like to depose anything else?
MARIO SILVA: Ah? Why?
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Would you like to depose anything else?
MARIO SILVA: No, nothing, I am here... as Catholics say... waiting for the blow.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): We'd rather prepare for victory, instead of...
MARIO SILVA: No... Damn it, Palacios, let's be clear, you know where the power really is here.
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Yes, yes, yes...
MARIO SILVA: Molero gave us additional five rifles. We have 12 rifles right now. We have plenty of ammunition; we have the capacity to counterattack... Anyway, buddy, all things considered... and note that this thing drives me really mad. And this would be the ending remarks. I am really mad because a tiny group that cannot be publicly exposed... which is against Maduro, cannot be exposed; otherwise, they would have to declare themselves as traitors. It is a little group, a little group we can control, crush, neutralize, as it were. I do believe that we can make it. I need though, my friend, and that thing is...
You need to take a seat and talk to Maduro, compadre. You need to take a seat and tell him the things... I have been close to tell Maduro: "Maduro, a conspiracy is going on. I have almost said so to him. However, I don't know what about his reaction...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): It could be the thing for...
MARIO SILVA: I don't know... that is, it could be counterproductive...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Most importantly, anyone should be clear regarding the things to be faced. And some elements, tied together, do tell many things. (unintelligible) ... This means that we are tackling neither hypothetical nor unreal things. It means that ideas should be localized right now... and taking action...
MARIO SILVA: You tell me... I'm facing troubles with my daughter right now. I spoke with Hanoi to see whether I can move her soon... because they need to conduct the treatment on her...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): As soon as possible, because such disease should be followed up. And I reckon that if the timing is good, the consequences will be positive.
MARIO SILVA: No, I even told her that she could take her mum as companion...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): No. She [Hanoi's mother] ought to accompany her.
MARIO SILVA: It is hard... no, no, no...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Well, I advise you, above all, to cheer up. Depression obstructs ideas. And thus far we have detected a portion of the phenomenon... which can help further in this process... to clarity all questions, ideas...
MARIO SILVA: One of the things going around is the need... Likewise, for that group, the group of Diosdado and company, to become detached from... to keep relations, but becoming detached from the brotherhood, and the agreements with Cuba; that is...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): That is on its way...
MARIO SILVA: It's on its way, it's on its way, and that would be... You know, because you are the only ones who have been working hard on those Missions [welfare programs]. And you are keenly aware that as soon as they get detached, Barrio Adentro is over; hospitals, health care, education, all that shit will be finished off...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Many things, intelligence...
MARIO SILVA: Intelligence as well. Many things...
INTERLOCUTOR (PALACIOS): Now, let's record it...
MARIO SILVA: Let me record that thing for you; let me put it on a CD for you.
At first she agreed that I use her real name, that she had no problems with that at all. After all, living with HIV had driven her to help others – as a workshop facilitator giving talks and conducting seminars, or as a volunteer for local AIDS Service Organizations like Acción Solidaria (Solidary Action) and Mujeres Unidas por la Salud (Women United for Health, or Musa), a support group network for HIV-positive women. But when we were well into the interview, the realization that she might lose her private health insurance coverage made her change her mind.